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Post by paulooshun on Jul 19, 2014 13:54:44 GMT -8
I don't know enough about damage and hits to really nail this down, I was just suggesting with a critical you'd do standard damage plus flip for an additional attack which could potentially then add to the damage you'd done. If that second flip was also a crit (which I think is about a 0.6% chance?) you'd do a third attack.
Crits wouldn't be massively dependant on skill then so much as luck of the draw, but the overall damage would end up slightly influenced by skill since a red is more likely to get more checks on their second or third flip.
I would (but this is purely my opinion) scrap the armour bypass and just have the crit do damage based on those pips DI was just talking about, from 3 to 6. I think the armour bypass would make it pretty lethal.
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 19, 2014 14:22:41 GMT -8
I like that, really. On average a crit would be slightly more damage, but there would be that small chance of the stars aligning and throwing a huge amount of damage.
There could even be awesome on-crit effects, like Keen Blade: On a critical hit, flip three cards, and choose the best one. Repeat if one of those is a critical hit.
Basically would increase the chance of chain-crits, but as crits would be subject to armor, it rarely would go totally insane. It still might, once in a while.
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Post by paulooshun on Jul 19, 2014 14:39:01 GMT -8
I think that once-in-a-blue-moon chance is a good thing too. Each crit has a chance to trigger that rare "winning streak" of crits. People love a little gambling even if it's from the sidelines, and watching multiple crits unfold can be played upon for tension.
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 20, 2014 2:04:50 GMT -8
A blue skilled player with a blue weapon could do between the following damage.
(3Crit+3BluePip)+([2nd] strikes)=6 and (3C+3C+3C+3BP+3BP+3BP)+([4th] 3+2BP)=23(!)
So 6-23 damage for a 0 skill low quality weapon hit. But a red skilled player with a red weapon could do much better.
(3C+6RedPip)+([2nd] strikes)=9 and (3C+3C+3C+6RP+6RP+6RP)+([4th] 3+4RP)=34(!!)
That'd be 9-34 damage for a high skilled player with a godly weapon, more variance, but I still think on average it'd hit much harder.
I thought about how armor could work in this multicrit situation. Perhaps the defender would get a separate defense flip for each extra 'attack', gaining more damage reduction pips. This way a strong armor could still reduce your damage taken significantly, and make you feel awesome for getting it.
And this is just damage, think of all the other possibilities. For example, on the first time I tried the demo adventure with a friend, I added 3 guards to the first combat, but then forgot to actually use the friendly NPC and got my character killed. Oops. On act 2 my friend tried to use Charisma to recruit a henchman to help in the final combat, and he got a crit. This was so awesome I declared he inspired the bartender to join him, because my slain character was his brother (I had given him the profession Barista just as a quick something, but it actually made the story awesome.)
Had this multifilp way been in and he would've got an impressive 20+ 'damage' on his multicrit charisma check, I'd have said half the bar would've been enraged for losing their favourite barista, and started a riot. This would've given my friend and my now effectively resurrected character an advantage in the last fight, perhaps one less or weaker guards as the city would've called up reserves to quell the unrest.
Just some thoughts on this.
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 20, 2014 14:27:36 GMT -8
If my fail level maths are correct, which I doubt, the chance to get that astronomical 34 damage would be equally astronomical. I don't mind if someone corrects my calculations, so here goes nothing.
Chance of crit, as Ziphion noted, is fairly common:
3/36=0,083 ~8,3%
Chance of a double crit is much less common, but happens from time to time:
(3/36)*(2/35)=0,0048 ~0,05%
A triple crit already is nearly impossible, but will still happen sometimes:
(3/36)*(2/35)*(1/34)=0,00014 ~0,001%
Getting that 34 damage then?
(3/36)*(2/35)*(1/34)*(10/36)=0,00004 ~0,0004%
24999-to-1 odds of that happening.
It still will happen to someone, someday, but is anything but common.
All of this is prob just plain incorrect, though.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Jul 23, 2014 5:03:54 GMT -8
I've made another change to the pips, now critical failures will have 1 pip in each color. This won't have any effect on damage (since critical failures are always misses) but it will be useful for resolving other game effects (such as setting cards that refer to pips to resolve their effects).
I've also changed the number of checks and strikes on critical successes and failures, from 1 to 4 (ascending in the case of checks, descending in the case of strikes). This will make resolving critical successes and failures easier. For example, if you flip red and get a critical success, you will do 4 checks and 6 pips worth of damage, for a total of 10, which automatically bypasses armor. That is basically best case scenario, without taking into account skills or powers that can improve damage.
I know 10 armor piercing damage may seem like a lot, but keep in mind you would have to have at least red level skill and a red level weapon. Also, stronger opponents can have more than 10 life points (and large opponents/vehicles multiple components each with high life point totals). If you have read the Hobbit you may recall that Smaug was basically impervious to attack, except for one missing scale. A precisely placed harpoon takes him out in one shot, taking advantage of this weakness. Critical successes are basically story elements, even in combat, changing the narrative in drastic and interesting ways and making the 'impossible' possible every so often, just like in the movies!
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 23, 2014 6:38:42 GMT -8
Just so I got it right:
- The 3 critical success/failure cards are still identical.
- A blue skill crit with a yellow weapon would be 1 + 5 = 6 armor piercing damage, and a green skill crit with a blue weapon would be 2 + 3 = 5 AP damage?
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Jul 23, 2014 6:43:54 GMT -8
Correct.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 23, 2014 12:38:08 GMT -8
Does this mean if you're flipping triple red, and your first or second card is a critical success, it counts as 4 instead of 1 (since you just count up the checks)?
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 23, 2014 15:05:29 GMT -8
This also means the resolution "ladder" goes, from best to worst:
Red Crit Success Yellow Crit Success Green Crit Success Blue Crit Success Triple Check Double Check Check Strike Double Strike Triple Strike Red Critical Failure Yellow Critical Failure Green Critical Failure Blue Critical Failure
Higher Initiative wins ties, mirror flips broken with a reflip.
Correct?
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 23, 2014 16:38:55 GMT -8
See, I thought you always reflip, and don't use initiative for tiebreakers, since that would make color rotations a bit less meaningful (like about an 8% increase for rotating up, vs 9% with just reflipping for ties). All ties would become coin flips.
I hadn't considered the ramifications of criticals having different weights. After running a quick (100k) sim, not considering multi-flips, deck rotations give you a 9.4% increase with tiered criticals, vs only a 9.1% increase with all criticals being equal. So that's nice. Including multiflips, chances improve by about 7%. This change also makes the overall color-vs-color graph a little bit more angular, since jumping from red to 2x red boosts your chances by a slightly larger amount than yellow to red (7% vs 9%), but that's not a problem really.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 23, 2014 18:16:16 GMT -8
I would also add "Quadruple Check" and "Quadruple Strike" to your tiered list, for multiflip criticals that aren't the last card. (If I understand it correctly.)
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 24, 2014 0:26:39 GMT -8
Wait, but aren't multiflips "Pick best/worst, discard others" and not "Sum up all checks/strikes" now?
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 24, 2014 3:41:20 GMT -8
Yes, but there are four checks on the red section of the critical success card now. If you're 3x red and you flip:
Crit (4 checks), 1 strike, 1 check
...then your result is 4 checks, which beats everything except a true critical success. If that critical had been the last card, it would have been a critical 4, which beats everything.
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Post by Arcanet on Jul 24, 2014 4:57:34 GMT -8
A crit 4, check, strike would be a crit 4 as I understood it.
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