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Post by fotostuf on Sept 5, 2014 18:02:47 GMT -8
"What I'm proposing is assisting characters allowing the one being assisted to turn up their attempts if they succeed in their assist flip,
but conversely requiring the character they are assisting to turn their attempt down if they fail their assist flip."
D.I... You're a genius.
Your idea allows the assisting mechanic to be a thinking mechanic, not just a 'roll of the dice', or in this case, flip of the cards.
A player who doesn't have the expertise to solve a problem yet still insists on "helping", risks making the problem worse, not better.
Good game play should never be just rolling (flipping!)... it needs to have storyline, theme, and above all thought behind the action, both by the players and the GM.
You have provided the thought in design with Simple System (and with the help of the amazing people on this board!)... and what a design it is!
I fell away from gaming long ago because thought was replaced by rule after rule, pages of overly complicated tables, never-ending dice rolls and ever diminishing role playing.
You have inspired me to come back with your fresh design and a way to think outside the box... thank you for this encouragement and especially for the creative thought!
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 5, 2014 19:16:24 GMT -8
Reminds me of "Aid Another" in D&D 4e: A character can grant a +2 bonus to a party member's check, but only if they succeed on a check of their own; if they fail, they give a -1 penalty.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 5, 2014 20:24:24 GMT -8
Thanks fotostuf, I am extremely happy that so many passionate individuals have joined the discussion here and that Simple System's design has inspired so many great ideas from the community and rekindled interest in role playing for many others. My idea of a good rule is one that gives a clear framework for resolving the situations that arise while at the same time creates opportunities for the players to tell the story instead of just telling them what happens.
Never played 4e, from what I hear it wasn't the most beloved iteration.
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 6, 2014 2:27:54 GMT -8
We actually already used a similar mechanic successfully earlier while testing my friends setting.
We were next to our downed helicopter, and had to reinforce our position before nightfall. After trying to dig a trench and failing hard, one of us tried to climb on top of the helicopter to get a better shooting position. Well, he found the ladders, but failed to climb up, and managed to break them. Oops.
Then someone just asked if he could use his impressive strength to help with the climb.
So, he flipped his strength and succeeded, giving the other character a turn up on his agility climb attempt.
Without the help he would've failed again, so it was a smart move too.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 6, 2014 3:18:00 GMT -8
Er, sorry, my 4e comment seems kind of random. I just thought I'd mention how other games do this sort of thing.
Is the assist flip unopposed, or does it depend on the difficulty of the primary character's flip?
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 6, 2014 3:43:19 GMT -8
It would be unopposed, essentially seeing if your ability (Strength, perception, etc.) is enough to effectively grant a bonus to another's player attempt to accomplish a specific task. (or conversely serve to hinder their attempt when you really shouldn't be helping)
I would call this a synergy mechanic, and in my experience the more of these a system has the more likely the players are to come together and function as a cohesive group.
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Post by paulooshun on Sept 6, 2014 7:05:23 GMT -8
After reading the explanations I'm convinced. I had kind of misunderstood how it worked initially.
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 6, 2014 7:49:45 GMT -8
In regard to the cards being "good" and "bad", this could easily be solved by randomizing the initiative numbers of cards 4-33. It wouldn't change anything mechanically, but it'd feel more random.
Or, even randomize ALL initiative numbers. This way, you could make 36 a critical fail, and essentially turn it into a 'joker' card. No gameplay change, unless you get lucky and draw it for initiative. Bang, you go first and remove a critical fail for this combat encounter, and get to feel awesome for it.
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 6, 2014 8:40:14 GMT -8
I think making clear good and bad cards isn't really a terrible thing though. As it would make skills that let you remove cards for a certain period of time, or change the order of the top x cards of the resolution deck much easier to be able to tell what you'd wan't coming up. With the way things are currently it would be hard to decide what you'd want to remove or move back other than crit fails.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 6, 2014 9:12:06 GMT -8
I really like the idea of a character class with a bunch of powers and skills that let them alter their resolution decks. Removing a critical failure, reshuffling at will, looking at the top card of their deck. Maybe call it "Fatechanger" or something.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 6, 2014 12:02:20 GMT -8
Wait till the powers I'm working on come out!
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 7, 2014 6:54:00 GMT -8
Deck control is likely going to be something I focus on, when I get around to making skills, powers, and classes.
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