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Post by Dashing Inventor on Jul 2, 2014 19:51:56 GMT -8
It helps to think of the colors in terms of intensity:  |
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 4, 2014 9:04:47 GMT -8
I can see the logic for green > yellow > red, but blue is what gets me... shouldn't it be next to green on the spectrum? I told my wife about the four colors of Simple System, and asked her to guess how they rated from worst to best. She said, "Well, red is the worst, right?" I said no... try thinking of them like an intensity gauge or RPM gauge. She said, "Blue, green, yellow, red?" It's probably the least important part of the design, since after people play one time they'll get used to it. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. P.S. The physicist in me would love it if the sequence was blue > green > yellow > red (or the opposite), so that players can "red-shift" or "blue-shift" their deck when they rotate.  |
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Post by aetesaki on Jul 5, 2014 2:46:05 GMT -8
Think about it as a flame. Green means it's safe. The flame is not burning. At yellow, the flame is burning, but at a low temperature giving of a yellow color, as the combustion is incomplete. Adding more oxygen to the flame and it turns reddish orange. Now, it's hot, but still not a complete combustion. A bit more oxygen in the mix, and the flame turns blue. Now the combustion is complete. The flame produces no ash.
It's basically a bunsen burner.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 5, 2014 11:48:32 GMT -8
I thought flame temperature went like red > yellow > blue, with blue being the hottest and red the coolest.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Jul 7, 2014 12:08:38 GMT -8
I officially made this announcement in the last Kickstarter Update, but Simple System will now be following a Blue - Green - Yellow - Red color progression.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Jul 8, 2014 7:12:16 GMT -8
Oh, sweet! I hadn't noticed the update. What's really great is the Simple System logo doesn't have to change at all, since the colors are still in order! Thanks DI.
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Post by Thuncar on Sept 10, 2014 11:21:18 GMT -8
I know this thread is a couple months old, but I recently did my first play test with simple system and I found the color progression to be counter-intuitive. Simple system has a binary color code in place with Checks and Strikes. Red Strikes are negative results and Green Checks are positive. This is extremely intuitive, when I think of a check mark it is almost always green in every setting, and a strike almost always red.
The color wheel then flips this binary and suggests that red is better than green. I find this very counter-intuitive for two reasons: It gives the player two settings for a color (red is the best for flips but the worst for results) and because my personal experience has conditioned me to see red as an undesirable color and green as a more positive result. Since I spend a good deal of time in my car and traffic gives a daily reminder that red is a frustrating color to see. Examples of red being a negative result and progressing to green being positive:
Traffic Lights: Nobody wants to see a red light when they come up to an intersection, yellow is acceptable (if you're lucky) and green is the desired state. Red Stop, Green Go. In traffic all you see is the red lights ahead of you. Red means I don't get to do what I want, which is to go home.
Speedometers(Edit: Says MPH really should be RPM for my example): Most aren't colored this way, but redlining is pushing your engine too hard and is a negative result. Even though the needle progresses from green towards red, it is a negative progression; if you care about your engine you don't want to end up at red.
The Electromagnetic Spectrum: Red light is the lowest energy and progresses through the spectrum towards green and even blue being the highest energy. Not necessarily negative to positive but the progression from lowest to highest is there.
Pressure Gauges: Depending on the application this can be either way. For me, if pressure is rising in a tank, it will go from green towards red. Red being an unstable over-pressurized system that is a negative situation to be in; I'd start running. The speedometer example is similar, if you like pushing the limits of your car you might want to redline your engine. Ultimately though I think this example and our different interpretations of it show that this comes down to conditioning, whatever we have been trained to look for is intuitive to us individually.
I think the most commonly held and strongest conditioning manifests itself in the color binary. Red strikes bad, green checks good; try reversing this, it doesn't look right (Even Google struggles to do so). This is why I think the color scheme should change. I think the majority of people will agree with this binary state and the simplest thing is to build up from there. When flipping red I intuitively expect to see more red, i.e. more strikes. When flipping green I intuitively expect to see more green, i.e. more checks. Currently this is reversed. Flipping red gives you more green checks and flipping green gives you more red strikes. I really think a progression of negative red, yellow, green, positive blue makes the most sense.
Just my two cents, I'm really excited to see your final system!
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 10, 2014 15:19:26 GMT -8
This is a well thought out argument. Anyone else care to weigh in?
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 10, 2014 15:36:26 GMT -8
I don't really have much besides opinions, but I like the current B>G>Y>R progression. From low intensity, weak, cold, safe; to high intensity, strong, hot, dangerous.
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 10, 2014 17:01:46 GMT -8
I think thuncar brings up a lot of good points. R > Y > G > B was my initial feeling for how the colors should go. (My wife's, too; "Red's the worst, right?") But really I was fine with the reverse too, since at least the colors would be in rainbow order. But now, I think I agree - RYGB is probably better. I had experimented with making checks red and strikes blue in my playtest demo deck, so that the "bad" and "good" colors were consistent, but it didn't really look right. People expect checks to be green and strikes to be red. I think I'd prefer it if there were more color consistency, and reversing the color order is probably the simplest way to do that.
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 10, 2014 17:11:30 GMT -8
Also, I admit I am biased, since thuncar and I are friends in person.  |
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Post by mzum on Sept 10, 2014 18:25:10 GMT -8
Red is perceived as 'bad', in the US at least. I think it's a negligible problem for the most part.
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 10, 2014 20:59:17 GMT -8
I'll eventually get use to how ever the rules end up with regard to the color progression. It's no different to me than when a game decides low is good instead of high being good on die rolls. I think fussing over how best to take advantage of preconceived opinions on colors is a waste of time. You're not gonna be able to satisfy everyone. It's rather easy to argue for or against either progression.
That's my general opinion on the entire thread.
But, thuncar pointing out that strikes are red and checks are green, but green is worse then red else where is the only reason I'd support changing the color wheel again. Consistency is important. Other than red being made worse than green I've no opinion on where to put the other colors, it's just a mechanic I'll eventually memorize no need to overly rationalize it.
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Post by lunaguardian on Sept 10, 2014 22:15:00 GMT -8
Red is perceived as 'bad', in the US at least. I think it's a negligible problem for the most part. Red is considered bad everywhere. Soviet Russia being the usual reversal  |
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