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Post by Arcanet on Sept 9, 2014 17:07:25 GMT -8
Are there any rules for post-cap advancement? Could players gain additional skills/powers somehow?
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 9, 2014 18:41:22 GMT -8
Yes, the idea is to allow characters to select a new skill every level beyond level 6. However once you reach level 6 you can no longer increase your abilities.
What do you think? What would you think about allowing a character to downgrade one ability in order to upgrade another every time they reach a level beyond the 6th?
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mzum
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Post by mzum on Sept 9, 2014 18:56:06 GMT -8
@di: What are the design goals for post 6 play? Do we want the same play style, continually increasing prowess...? Tone determines what we allow.
It strikes me, that the system can be very... Lethal as written. Riding off into the sunset might be a real accomplishment.
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 10, 2014 5:31:18 GMT -8
A related question, could some skills/powers be limited availability? I thought about making some skills/powers class-specific, and others to require a certain minimum level. But then I had an idea of some of them being locked to minimum abilities.
For example, a Templar isn't going to learn how to cast a fireball (without an item with special properties), but one with enough points in Agility could learn Whirlwind Kick, an otherwise Monk-slanted power.
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mzum
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Post by mzum on Sept 10, 2014 8:55:18 GMT -8
What about taking certain skills Twice (or more) post-6? Institute a hard cap on Triple-flip Red//Blue. Players then have a way to grow over time. Hard cap encourages a variety of Skills and Abilities. This lays groundwork for opposed rolls with very high abilities... Assume Abilities//Skills are unlimited. Compare Character Ability + (relevant skill) . You'll have 2 numbers. If their difference is greater than 7, highest wins, no flip needed. Loser gets a hero point. Otherwise they can be placed on the normal resolution system. I'd probably allow players to concede contests, gaining a hero point in return. Arcanet: That seems fine. Balanced by setting//story and you'd be fine. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2 |
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Ziphion
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Post by Ziphion on Sept 10, 2014 10:16:42 GMT -8
Since upgrading an ability by one point gives you a rather large increase to your success with that ability (~10% boost to opposed checks, ~17% boost to unopposed), you could stretch out a character's advancement by only allowing an ability increase every other level, instead of every level. The in-between levels could grant the character new skills/powers. Someone building a long campaign might want to do something like this.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 10, 2014 15:24:10 GMT -8
On the road atm, but I definitely want to respond to this as soon as I can sit down tonight.
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 10, 2014 19:46:39 GMT -8
Ok, got second now. I'm ok with people tying certain powers to specific classes (for settings that use classes). However, I am against other kinds of prerequisites (such as character level or ability levels). If a low level character wants to select a really high level power, I think they should be able to. However, their ability to use that power will be limited by their power point pool, since that power has a high power point cost per use. I think this will encourage players to choose skills appropriate for their levels naturally, without limiting their options.
In terms of increasing your abilities after 6th level - on every other level for example - I personally feel that would require too much note keeping on the part of the players. I prefer to let them shift around the ability points they have, if desired. This simulates the maximum of human potential (or whatever race you're playing) with powers taking over any ability upgrades beyond that.
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Post by lunaguardian on Sept 10, 2014 22:28:53 GMT -8
How would SS accommodate seriously large power jumps in game? For example, if one player (or all players) would by role playing happenstance find and be possessed by the unipower from the Marvel universe? Or if they would be chosen as champions of Heaven? Or some unforeseen event that by all logic should give them powers beyond mortal men (provided they are mortal men in the first place)? Sometimes (always) rolls (flips) and role playing take the story to strange and new places that haven't been planned for by the GM after all.
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mzum
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Post by mzum on Sept 11, 2014 5:44:58 GMT -8
How would SS accommodate seriously large power jumps in game? For example, if one player (or all players) would by role playing happenstance find and be possessed by the unipower from the Marvel universe? Or if they would be chosen as champions of Heaven? Or some unforeseen event that by all logic should give them powers beyond mortal men (provided they are mortal men in the first place)? Sometimes (always) rolls (flips) and role playing take the story to strange and new places that haven't been planned for by the GM after all. Sounds like a Job for a Simple Smith! I posted a rough suggestion earlier. Attempts effectively have a rating :the # of points you've pit into the relevant ability + relevant skills. If a rating is 7 higher than it's opposition, the attempt automatically succeeds. No check needed. I'd probably use a Setting Rule: Any time a Player fails an Attempt, with no flip involved, they get a Hero Point. Combat Attempts would inflict set amount of damage, based on the level of your Attempt. It's rough, but it could cover the tropes. The way to counteract super high abilities would be to run about, Attempt-ing to cause Complications. ("I'll distract him! You get the M-Laser ready!") Another option: giving out a unique skill that allows the entity to auto-succeed certain checks. In all cases, I'd want a framework where Complications could cancel the power difference. If you had more than 1 'Super' character running around, you'll need some kind of tier system. The idea I'm most partial to: Add Tiered Auto-Success Skills. "Super Strength" for instance. These can be Tiered (I, II, III), Higher Skills beating out the lower. Tweak character creation until you've got something you like. Advancement as normal. |
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 12, 2014 13:48:57 GMT -8
I think this will encourage players to choose skills appropriate for their levels naturally, without limiting their options. I must say, with my group that is a fatal assumption to make, in regards to them taking into consideration their resources when picking stuff. I was thinking that you could add the XP track to the bottom of classes and have class abilities gated to levels on that class card. So they have to decide where to stick their XP during early to mid game and late game you could let them take an additional class when they hit 6th on their character sheet, this would give you a level cap of 18, 6 on character sheet, 6 on first class and 6 on 2nd class. I'll likely never bother to use this idea myself, I think I prefer the current system of after 6th level you just can pick more skills/powers every time you get the xp required to level. I also don't really know how DI has the classes set up. |
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 12, 2014 14:36:28 GMT -8
I like that idea. You get XP at the end of a session, and let's say you need just one to get to level 2. As is, any XP past the next level treshold is 'wasted' (using more Hero Points is currently the way to disperse the excess XP.)
What if, as LordAnubis said, the 'excess' XP would then go toward your Class level? This way, your abilities and 'non-class', more generic Skills/Powers, would grow faster than your Class Skills/Powers, which then could be made much more powerful.
I dunno, I'd much rather stick "Power" "Templar 4" to the back of a class Power card that I know is strong (think D&D Encounter/Daily strong), and then just add this line to the setting primer: "The skills and powers in this setting have been balanced and playtested with the available Power Points and included adversaries. The suggested levels are just that, suggested."
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 13, 2014 16:14:09 GMT -8
Another point which I think would make this idea good, but still very simple to implement and understand.
Consider a tale of two Dwarven Templars. This pair of brothers has traveled together for quite a while now, and they've just reached the level cap. They are both now a level 6 Dwarf, level 6 Templar, with identical abilities and Templar Powers.
Here is where their similarities end, however.
Alphus followed his fathers path, and focused his attention to the teachings of the Templar. He used his Dwarf level experience to choose generic but useful Powers and Skills, like Sprint, and he took Divine Neophyte once, which let him choose another Templar Power, below his Dwarf level.
Bruin, on the other hand, followed his mothers way. He split his devotion to the Templar, and dabbled in the old ways of the Wizards. He used his Dwarf level experience on only a few generic Skills, and took Arcane Apprentice many times, which gave him access to many Wizard Powers, below his Dwarf level.
Alphus is a much more powerful Templar, as he has access to more Templar Powers, and he is utilizing his Skills to maximize their effect.
Bruin, comparatively, isn't as strong a Templar. He on the other hand has a much wider deck of aces up his sleeve, some of which may end up saving the day at some point in their adventures.
Doing it like this, as I plan to for my setting, would work as an effective multi-class system, with a built-in penalty for multi-classing (as you won't get as many generic Skills and Powers, which I intend to make interesting and useful). You also won't be able to choose the level 6 Powers of another class.
This also balances itself, as a Templar needs to have mediocre Strenght, Build, Charisma and Intellect if they wish to use the multi-classed Wizard Powers to any noticeable effect. The other Templar can just focus on Strenght, Build and Charisma, and thus be much more effective at what they do.
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