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Post by fotostuf on Sept 11, 2014 19:52:43 GMT -8
Not sure if this is the right place for this posting, but here it goes...
I didn't spend the extra money for the pre-release of Simple System (I know... too bad, so sad!), so as I follow these threads, I'm never quite sure what is being discussed, especially when it comes to the powers mechanic. If I'm understanding things correctly (and I most often DON'T!!) magic spells, super powers and so on, would be listed on a card... something like a spell written out with range, effect, etc. Is that correct?
That said, I've been playing around with creating a magic system that doesn't have specific lists of spells or abilities. Instead, there are "realms" (things that can be affected by magic, such as corporeal, spirit, temporal and the like) and "effects" (how a realm is affected, such as augment, communicate, summon, etc). The success of a spell would depend on the level of the caster (which determines what color you flip) and the effectiveness of the spell (the greater the effect, the more difficult to cast, which can affect what color card you flip as well). Things like range, number of targets, etc will also affect your chances of success or fumbling a spell.
What I like about this is pretty much any kind of spell is possible. One player may create a streaming flame that causes a lot of damage but doesn't have much range, another might prefer a fireball that can be thrown far but runs out of juice quickly. It gives the players freedom to create pretty much anything they can think up.
I've never much liked the D and D idea spells with specific ranges and amounts of damage and having to look up endless lists of spells.
The disadvantage is play will slow down because the player has to figure out pluses and minuses depending on modifiers like range and damage, etc. to develop a spell.
Then again, the more experienced player could create their own spells in advance (maybe like a spell book) and their character would be known for specializing in certain kinds of spells.
It's getting late and I have to work tomorrow... and I'm blathering. Any thoughts?
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Post by Dashing Inventor on Sept 11, 2014 22:10:09 GMT -8
I haven't released too much on powers yet, but it definitely gives players a lot of creative license.
I like your ideas, once more is released on the powers system I'd like to see how you could incorporate those ideas with it.
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Post by SirManCub on Sept 16, 2014 19:35:04 GMT -8
For my steampunk world, I've started a simple spell mechanic that works a bit like what you've described. I hope I'm not perverting the original idea of powers, but I like this mechanic kind of a lot.
To use magic, a character must have the ‘Magic’ skill. When a character first selects the Magic skill, they also select a spell from the Power list.
Using a magic spell from the Power list requires a flip. Spells are intentionally vague to allow magicians to shape the spell to the desired effect.
Each spell has a basic power point cost. By spending extra power points, players may increase the size, damage, range, number of targets, etc of spells, per the description.
Spells are tied to specific statistics. Since Fire is tied to Build, it requires a Build flip to cast the spell successfully.
If a spell is used as an attack, the flip is opposed like other attack/defense flips.
If the spell is used in a particularly difficult way, the flip is opposed by the GM. Basic uses of spells are unopposed.
My intention was to avoid the "endless lists" that fotostuf mentioned, which I also despise. Rather than having a "fireball" and a "flaming hands" and a "flaming sphere" spell, you just have a "Fire" spell that can be shaped as a spray, or a sphere, or a ball. Or you could just light a candle with it.
It brought up one concern for me, which is that the power points mechanic seems a bit... limited. A second level character with as many points as they can put into resolve and build, would only have 4 power points? Is there a safe way to modify this? I feel like even if you have a power (like the super speed power shown on the Kickstarter page), you can use it maybe 3 or 4 times a day?
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 17, 2014 5:10:44 GMT -8
Some things you could do to alter the power point economy,
Have magic based classes grant extra power points
Make a skill that grants additional power points
Item card that when consumed the user regains some power points
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Post by SirManCub on Sept 17, 2014 6:08:07 GMT -8
Some things you could do to alter the power point economy, Have magic based classes grant extra power points Make a skill that grants additional power points Item card that when consumed the user regains some power points I thought of skill cards adding power points. I have to admit I hadn't thought of adding them through classes or consumables, but i really like the idea. I think my question then becomes one of balance. Is expanding people's base power points (or giving them access to renewal items etc) going to mess up the game balance? |
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 17, 2014 6:10:14 GMT -8
I'm considering making a deck of fairly basic spells for my spellcaster classes, but then allowing players to 'boost' those basic spells into much more powerful versions by being in possession of specific items, and also by spending extra Power Points, and even Hero Points.
Think of a basic spell, like Fireball.
The Wizard already knows it just by choosing the class.
The party then acquires an item, the Fire-flask. Handing it to the Templar would let him cast Fireball, but giving it to the Wizard will let her cast a more powerful fireball, with an area blast.
Which is more useful, that is up to the party to decide, and it might even change by encounter.
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Post by SirManCub on Sept 17, 2014 6:31:13 GMT -8
I'm considering making a deck of fairly basic spells for my spellcaster classes, but then allowing players to 'boost' those basic spells into much more powerful versions by being in possession of specific items, and also by spending extra Power Points, and even Hero Points. My spell mechanic allows for boosting effects by spending additional power points. That way we don't need half a dozen spells just for fire effects. One fire spell covers it all, you just need the available power points to do the bigger/more damaging effects. I like the idea that Hero Points could be used for boosting effects, too, that's a great idea! |
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Post by LordAnubis on Sept 17, 2014 11:42:54 GMT -8
It's hard to say at this point, as I don't really know how powers are balanced in the base game yet. You'll likely have to do some testing to figure if you need to compensate.
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Post by fotostuf on Sept 17, 2014 20:14:49 GMT -8
I get away from spells costing anything. If you are a swordsman, you don't spend points to use your sword... you just use it. Your skill determines how good a flip you will be able to use, and you can fight as long as you have strength to do so.
Spellcasters can cast as many spells as they want... that is their skill and they just use it. BUT... and it's a big one... the chance of success depends not only on your skill but how powerful the spell is, and IF YOU FAIL (fumble the spell), bad things can happen. You might just miss your target or the spell just fizzles out, or you get weak and fall down, or you receive a complication, or damage, or fall unconscious if the failure is bad enough.
Since magic is always influencing something (lighting a candle would be modifying the candle to burn, so the target is the candle), spells are always opposed. Chances of lighting a candle would be really good (candles don't tend to resist being lit!), so little chance of fumbling, but lighting an enemies hair on fire would be much harder, and lighting up an entire building would be incredibly difficult, so more chances to fumble. The worse the failure (spell gets one or more strikes while target gets one or more checks), the worse the resulting effect against the spellcaster.
This mechanic means players don't need to deal with subtracting power points as the game goes on (always messy in my opinion).
This doesn't fix my issue with modifiers to create a spell though (things like range, number of targets, etc).
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Post by Arcanet on Sept 18, 2014 4:30:30 GMT -8
Another idea I had would be to let players "prepare" their powers before each encounter, choosing the ones they think they'll use. Let's say they have 7 Power Points, and they choose one potent 3 point power, one 2 point power, and two 1 point minor powers. This way, they need to think ahead, and have to be mindful of the other players Powers.
In case they would want to use a different Power, they could use a Hero Point to change into another Power.
And yes, a spellcaster would have a basic non-Power ranged attack, based on Intellect, similar to a melee strike.
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Post by SirManCub on Sept 18, 2014 13:16:46 GMT -8
I get away from spells costing anything. If you are a swordsman, you don't spend points to use your sword... you just use it. Your skill determines how good a flip you will be able to use, and you can fight as long as you have strength to do so. Spellcasters can cast as many spells as they want... that is their skill and they just use it. BUT... and it's a big one... the chance of success depends not only on your skill but how powerful the spell is, and IF YOU FAIL (fumble the spell), bad things can happen. You might just miss your target or the spell just fizzles out, or you get weak and fall down, or you receive a complication, or damage, or fall unconscious if the failure is bad enough. Since magic is always influencing something (lighting a candle would be modifying the candle to burn, so the target is the candle), spells are always opposed. Chances of lighting a candle would be really good (candles don't tend to resist being lit!), so little chance of fumbling, but lighting an enemies hair on fire would be much harder, and lighting up an entire building would be incredibly difficult, so more chances to fumble. The worse the failure (spell gets one or more strikes while target gets one or more checks), the worse the resulting effect against the spellcaster. This mechanic means players don't need to deal with subtracting power points as the game goes on (always messy in my opinion). This doesn't fix my issue with modifiers to create a spell though (things like range, number of targets, etc). Haha I disagree, I think your spells cost a lot! It has the opportunity cost of failure, plus there are great risks involved if the spell doesn't go right. It just doesn't cost a point or other measure of power. I actually quite like the picture of magic your system creates. Its a volatile, unpredictable energy, and using it can have great value, as well as dire consequences. It's a risk-reward system, but what really draws me in is the idea of magic having consequences. In fairness, just like using a sword, failure can mean bad things happen, especially if the sword-wielder is inexperiences or unskilled. I kind of wanted the magic in my system to be mysterious and rare. By having each spell cost a power, and limiting how many spells a caster takes, instead of having crazy huge spell lists and wizards who can barely remember all the spells they know, you have a core of very special, very carefully selected spells. Then the caster has to use imagination to use the spells to accomplish whatever task is before them. It makes those spells really precious and makes the casters/players really imaginative. |
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Post by fotostuf on Sept 18, 2014 16:22:45 GMT -8
I kind of wanted the magic in my system to be mysterious and rare. By having each spell cost a power, and limiting how many spells a caster takes, instead of having crazy huge spell lists and wizards who can barely remember all the spells they know, you have a core of very special, very carefully selected spells. Then the caster has to use imagination to use the spells to accomplish whatever task is before them. It makes those spells really precious and makes the casters/players really imaginative. To expand slightly on everyones ideas on magic: maybe magic has specialties, so if you are a fire mage, you only affect/cause/create fire; a weather mage affects weather; a travel mage movement, flight, teleportation; and so on. There may be spell cards (powers?) that would list a spell at its lowest power (fire lights a candle), then lists what it would take to light a torch, shoot a fire dart, throw a fireball, blow up a building, and also what level a mage must be to do those things. |
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